Godly 4v4: Zeus and Arceus

Eventually I’ll get to the actual fight…

 

These two are straight-up gods with a multitude of abilities, but many of their abilities are a little hard to measure – Zeus because he’s from a wide array of stories and legends with many variations rather than one definitive anime/manga or comic, and Arceus because most of his actual attacks are only expressed against other Pokemon and his creative abilities… well, we’ll get to those.

 

ZEUS

 

Zeus is the king of the gods of Greek Mythology, and has the powers to match. By how much varies – some just quote him as being stronger than the other Olympians, but others say that he’s stronger than all the other Olympians put together!

 

In fact, there’s only really been two conflicts in the myths great enough in scale to challenge him – the Titanochamy, a great battle where he and his siblings overthrew his father Kronos, and his battle against the Father of All Monsters Typhon (a character who really doesn’t get the attention he deserves, but anyway…)

 

Immortality

First and foremost among these: the gods are immortal, and it is heavily implied they may actually be completely unkillable, even by other gods. Defeated gods and titans get imprisoned in Tartarus or have any number of cosmic punishments inflicted on them, but they never get directly killed, even when would-be fatal injuries happen to them.

 

In addition, Zeus has shown himself to recover from such injuries remarkably quickly. After his first battle against Typhon, Zeus had all the tendons in his body ripped out, but after Hermes stole them back he just stuck them back in and got back to fighting. His general durability is through the roof as well.

 

Of course unkillable isn’t the same as undefeatable, and there are ways of keeping him from coming back for an extended time. In addition, his immortality has never been quite proven against total full-body disintegration, which would perhaps be possible by the likes of Goku or Vegeta

 

Power: Zeus’ power shook the universe when he fought Typhon, and he was proven to be easily able to pick up and hurl entire mountains. Not quite up to Superman in sheer physical strength, but still immense in its own right.

 

Thunderbolt: Zeus’s Thunderbolt is a magical weapon forged for him by the Elder Cyclopes

 

Shapeshifting: Zeus is a master of transforming himself and others, a power sometimes forgotten and easily demonstrable here – can the opposing team resist it at all? Even Vegetto was able to be turned to candy by Buu (though saying that, he was able to keep fighting even in that form), and Superman has no resistance to magic. Only Thor might have some inherent resistance to such a thing. I suppose since Zeus has never been directly seen to affect other gods with his powers, it’s possible he’ll have trouble transforming Goku and Vegeta in Super Saiyan Blue form…

 

ARCEUS

 

The creator of his (her? Its?) universe and one of the most powerful of the godlike Legendary Pokemon. That said, I feel Arceus’ powers may have diminished post-creation (where did those “thousand arms” go?), perhaps split off into other Legendaries. That’s all speculation though, what is Arceus capable of?

 

Offensive Power – Arceus has a wide range of moves covering almost every imaginable element, and is equally good at utilising close-combat strength and ranged magic. This gives Arceus the versatility to go toe-to-toe with almost any foe.

 

Durability: Similarly, Arceus’ natural toughness is backed up by an array of defensive abilities

 

Speed: Arceus is immensely fast by most standards, but he might have trouble keeping up with the likes of Superman or Goku

 

Multitype Judgement: Arceus is capable of adjusting his type before a battle, changing his powerful Judgement attack to match. While there’s no opportunity to switch mid-match, there may be one already ideal for this battle – By using the Spooky Plate, Arceus can become a ghost.

 

This renders him immune to ANY “Normal” or “Fighting” attack as they pass through his incorporeal form.

 

But what do these types mean? What, if anything, does that make him immune to? Well obviously basic hand-to-hand attacks from Goku, Vegeta or Superman are out. Given the nature of Ki I would be inclined to say Kamehameha and other Ki energy attacks are also Fighting-type in the same way Aura Sphere is (though it could be Fire or Electric if the “Kamehameha is plasma” theory is true). Either way it’s no defence against Superman’s Heat Vision or Thor’s lightning.

Creation: Arceus is said to have created the Pokemon universe, and one event scene within HeartGold and SoulSilver looks very much as if he could create another. That said, he only does so in a specific ruin, seemingly assisted by a very large number of Unown. It’s possible he can’t do such a thing freely and given that we don’t know that, I won’t be counting any creative abilities in this fight. It’s an impressive demonstration of his cosmic creator role though

Next up will be Dio Brando the vampire Stand User and Simon the Digger, whose drill pierces the heavens. I will complete this! Eventually!

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Jump Force: My Roster predictions and Wishlist

Jump Force is an upcoming game I’m extremely excited for, and I’ve been thinking a lot about who we’re likely to see in the game. So far we have seen confirmations of 28.5 chracters:

One Piece

1. Luffy

2. Zoro

3. Sanji

4. Sabo

5. Blackbeard

Dragon Ball

6. Goku

7. Vegeta

8. Frieza

9. Piccolo

10. Cell

Naruto

11. Naruto

12. Sasuke

Hunter X Hunter

13. Gon

14. Killua

15. Kurapika

16. Hisoka

Bleach

17. Ichigo

18. Rukia

19. Aizen

Yu-Gi-Oh

20. Yugi

Fist of the North Star

21. Kenshiro

Saint Seiya

22. Seiya

23. Shiryu

City Hunter

24. Ryo

Rurouni Kenshin

25. Kenshin

26. Shishio

Yu Yu Hakusho

27. Yusuke

28. Toguro

As well as Kane, an original character confirmed to be fighting in the game, though whether he’s actually playable remains to be seen.

 

Now there’s still a lot we don’t know about this roster and I don’t want to JUMP in and make one roster list based on assumptions about the size of of the overall roster, the number of characters each individual series can have and so on. So I thought I’d offer up a number of lists based on these different unknowns.

I do recall three statements being made by the developer about the roster, though I’m not certain how reliable the source was so I’m not certain about them. That said, I will be factoring them to some extent into my predictions. These three factors were:

1. This game would have more fighters than J-Stars Victory VS

2. There will be additional female fighters

3. The roster represents 50 years of Shonen Jump

With these in mind, here is my most straightforward list based on an estimate of 50 playable characters overall – partially as an estimate based on the release rate of J-stars (made by the same company and with information released in V-Jump) and partially because 50 characters in a 50th anniversary game would be too good an opportunity to miss. It’s kind of a combination of Wishlist and Prediction list, and I’m probably missing some big series I haven’t thought of, but let me know what you think.

 

First off, from Naruto. Given that One Piece, Dragon Ball and Naruto have been shown in all the material to be like the three “main” series to Jump Force, I estimate it to get 3 additional fighters, bringing it to the same 5 that One Piece and Dragon Ball currently have. My predictions for these three are:

30. Sakura

I expect a female fighter from Naruto, and I think Sakura is most likely. Her addition (and someone else I’m coming to next) would have complete Team 7. With a combination of super strength, medical jutsu and general Ninja abilities (maybe even some slug summons?) I think they could come up with an interesting moveset for her

31. Kakashi

Kakashi is one of my favourite Naruto characters. Adding him would truly complete Team 7 and with his wide array of jutsu there would be no problems coming up with a moveset. Maybe there’d even be a way for him to copy other character’s moves? Probably not, sounds like a ridiculous amount of extra work but even so. Honourable mention goes to Gaara, who could alternately be the fourth Naruto character

32. Madara/Kaguya

I’m pretty certain there’s a Naruto villain on the way but I can’t really decide which. I think most likely it’ll be Madara, since he was in J-stars and the developers can reuse his assets from that game. Kaguya is also a possibility as the (Kind of) final villain of Naruto and the potential first female villain in the game

From Toriko:

33. Toriko

I love this series, but I don’t know if we’ll see more than just Toriko himself this time round, what with the series being over and all. That said…

34. Zebra(/??? )

If any other Toriko characters are in the game Zebra seems most likely, partially due to also having been in J-stars. I’m not confident in the inclusion of a second Toriko character though, so that “/???” goes out to a character of a yet-unrepresented series.

Now on to My Hero Academia. People seem conflicted as to whether they’ll give this series many characters – it’s super-popular but on the other hand really new and thus might miss out in favour of the classics. Me personally, I’ll give it three

35. Deku

Obviously the main character is in, and he’s the only one I’m absolutely confident in

36. Bakugo/Todoroki

The second MHA slot goes to either Bakugo for being the main rival and having a fun power set or Todoroki for an equally (possibly more so) cool power set and having arguably a more major individual character role. I’d love to see either of them

38. Stain/Shiguraki/All for One/???

And the third slot goes to a villain, but I’m not sure how well any one of them fits – Stain’s kind of the villain of one arc, Shiguraki has never really gotten a fight scene, and All for One would kind of be too big an opponent for Deku and Co and is really All Might’s adversary.

Speaking of All Might, I’m sorry to say I don’t think he’s going to be in – and if he were, my excitement would be mixed with disappointment. Yes, he’s a brilliant character and gets many of the best, flashiest fights in the series, but I kinda feel if he got in, he’d be taking a spot from someone with a cool and unique power set (whereas All-Might would kinda end up very similar to Deku, having the same powers and all)

Kochi Kame/Dr Slump

39. Ryotsu (/???)

40. Arale (/???)

I felt I should include these two for legacy reasons, Ryotsu especially for his being in the longest-running of all Jump’s manga, but I can’t really see more gag series getting in, and I’m a little unsure about them in the first place. Given the serious tone of the game’s plot, these two might seem a bit out of place. I could be wrong though.

Yu Yu Hakusho

41. Kurama/Hiei

I think we could well see a third YYH character, and it’s got to be one of these two (probably Hiei, reusable assets again)

Gintama

42. Gintoki

43. Kagura

Now you may be wondering. “Adrogoz”, you say, “you barely gave Kochi Kame and Dr Slump one slot between them because they’re gag manga and wouldn’t fit the serious tone, now you’re giving Gintama two characters? Isn’t it also a gag manga?” To which I say, yes, around 60% of the time Gintama is way too silly to warrant two characters in this game, but in the big emotional awesome serious arcs? The Benizakura Arc, Yoshiwara, Shinsengumi Civil War Arc and others like them practically turn Gintama into a whole different series, and yet the characters feel equally at home. I think Gintoki will definitely be making an appearance, and I think Kagura is very likely as well

 

44. Kinikuman

If you’re going to represent 50 years of Shonen Jump, you’ve got to have characters from across those five decades, and Kinnikuman is one of the few Jump series from as far back as the 70s I can think of that are still recognised today (or at least that I can recognise).

Now for one of the big ones, Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure

45. Jotaro

46. Dio

Now a lot of people just throw in Jotaro and Dio and call it a day, but I’d be disappointed if all the Jojo we got was from Part 3. I feel before the new anime came out Part 3 was the only part anyone really knew about, and even now people who don’t know much about it assume Jotaro and Dio are just the overall main hero and villain. That said, Dio is definitely the most overarching and iconic Jojo villain, and Jotaro is probably the most iconic Jojo. But I think Jojo has a chance at getting more than 2 characters – it’s a series that’s been ongoing for more than half of Jump’s 50 years, and it’ more popular than ever with the new anime. And it’d be nice to see more than one part of it in this game.

47. Giorno

Seeing as how Jonathan and Joseph, as the only two Jojo’s in the anime at the time, got into J-stars over the more commonly included Jotaro I think Giorno, the Jojo of the part currently showing in the anime (and likely to still be showing at the time of Jump Force’s release) has the best chance.

Assassination Classroom

48. Korosensei

Really, Korosensei is the only representative Assassination Classroom needs – for most of the series he’s practically the only being with enough powers to make up a moveset. I think the series is popular enough to make an appearance

Black Clover

49. Asta

Never really got into this series myself, it seemed kind of unoriginal and bland, but I can see it’s pretty popular right now and I imagine Asta has a fairly good shot at inclusion

Medaka Box

50. Medaka

Never really got into this series either, but it’s also popular and I can’t think of too many Jump titles with female leads, so I think she’s got a fair shot at getting in.

 

 

So that’s my 50 character list. I have other lists in the works – a 40 character list as a sort of minimal prediction, a different 50-character list that cuts back on characters per series to include as many series as possible, and an unrealistically big 70-character wishlist with characters from all my Jump favourites as a sort of “dream-come-true” list. Would you be interested in any of these? What do you think of this list? Any missing series? Let me know!

4V4 Godly Super-Battle: Evaluation part 1

Eh, it’s been about, what, half a year, give or take. Guess I should get a move on on that ridiculous battle I mentioned…

Today I will give my take on various abilities and features of two of the fighters in this battle  – in this case, Goku and Vegeta – and how effective I reckon they’d be against the fighters on the opposite team. I should probably note that Goku and Vegeta are being evaluated based on their power and abilities at the current point in the Dragon Ball Super anime – that is, on the leadup to the Tournament of Power – and anything they learn or advance after is off the table (That said, information and clarification that would logically have applied to previous situations but was only revealed later will probably still be taken into account)

Anyway, on with the show! Let’s start with Goku…

Hand-to-hand combat and reflexes – Goku is a master martial artist and his reflexes and movements are fast enough to at least catch bullets. Hand-to-hand melees with other fighters at his level are only seen as a series of shockwaves across the sky. Before Battle of Gods there was perhaps some ambiguity as to how powerful his melee attacks were (since the most powerful attacks and practically anything shown to destroy planets before that were energy attacks), but after ascension to Super Saiyan God, Goku’s attacks clashing with Beerus’ had enough force to threaten to tear apart the universe in a few hits.

He’s definitely among the strongest fighters in this battle in terms of melee power and is probably the outright winner in terms of hand-to-hand combat speed (with one possible, loophole-esque exception).

Durability – This one’s a little ambiguous. Goku has easily deflected or blocked attacks capable of blowing up the Earth many times over, and even when he takes relatively large energy attacks from such foes head-on, while they leave him battered, they rarely seem to do him much visible damage. However, he seems (comparatively) flimsy when off-guard (such as when Sorbet’s raygun badly injured him, when Krillin threw a rock at him before the Cell Games or in just about any casual non-combat situation for that matter). My guess is, Goku forms some kind of ki defence when he’s prepared for combat that enhances his durability through the roof. Even when caught off-guard, he still takes only a little scuff from point-blank bullets and such.

Super Saiyan Blue (or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan if you really insist): I’d assess all the Super Saiyan forms, but realistically this one makes the previous forms redundant, except maybe classic Super Saiyan for when you’re low on energy or holding back to make the fight more fun. Super Saiyan Blue boosts Goku’s power and (maybe) speed to ridiculous extremes. And it has another nifty advantage of Blue over previous numbered Super Saiyan forms…

Kaioken, a risky self-straining power-multiplier taught to Goku by King Kai around the same time he learned the Spirit Bomb, was mostly forgotten after Goku’s fight with Frieza, probably because, as it turns out, it can’t be used alongside Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan, being much stronger than the highest Kaioken with none of the drawbacks. More recently, however, Goku has proved that it can be used with Super Saiyan Blue, multiplying his already massive power, but with the same straining effects it always had.

Kamehameha! – Goku’s signature move and one of his only energy attacks. At this point, it’s capable of destroying just about anything in its path, especially when boosted with Super Saiyan forms and/or Kaioken. Probably comprised of plasma. That said, it is still possible to hold off with another beam, tough recent opponents like Hit are still capable of taking it (to say nothing of the likes of Beerus), and it’s a fairly straightforward attack that can be dodged and such. It seems so noticeably telegraphed that interrupting or dodging should be easy, but Goku finds ways around that sometimes, like charging it up then unexpectedly using Instant Transmission to hit them up close.

Still though, with Super Saiyan Blue and Kaioken, it’d definitely one-shot Dio or Gurren Lagann and maybe incapacitate Zeus if he can hit them with it

Spirit Bomb – The Spirit Bomb draws its power from all the living things in the universe, so it can sometimes defeat foes even Goku couldn’t on its own – but it has a multitude of drawbacks. It takes way too long to charge to be feasible unless your allies can hold the enemy back while you charge it. To get the most out of it, you have get everyone everywhere to actively participate. It won’t harm anyone pure of heart. Since Dio wouldn’t stand up to a boosted Kamehameha (and would instead be relying on countering it with his Stand’s abilities) and Simon is probably immune, the Spirit Bomb is mostly redundant here. Might be worth a shot against Zeus

Instant Transmission – Goku can teleport. Could be useful for surprise attacks and/or manuevering around or inside the bigger Gurren Laganns. Goku also seems to have a habit of completely forgetting he has it.

 

Vegeta

Hand-to-hand, reflex, forms and durability summary – Vegeta’s core abilities are essentially very similar to Goku’s. He’s similarly good at melee combat and seems to react about as quickly. Like Goku he has attained Super Saiyan Blue form (but not Kaioken). Vegeta is, however, less prone to lowering his guard, so he’s effectively more durable.

Energy Attacks – Vegeta seems to have a bigger range of energy attacks than Goku, so he seems more versatile over a range. Most notable of all, we have…

Final Flash – A ki beam so massive, it’s clearly visible in shots of the Earth from space. Draining on Vegeta’s energy, but so big it’s got to be hard to dodge, and immensely destructive, comparably so to Goku’s Kamehameha.

Instant Transmission – Vegeta cannot use Instant Transmission

And that’s about all I can find to cover here. Anything you think I misssed? Let me know, and tune in soon(ish) for part two, where we’ll take a look at two of their opponents -Zeus, the strongest of the Olympian gods and Arceus, the creator-god of the Pokemon universe

Goku, Thor, Superman and Vegeta: The Opposition

So I have now picked the opposing team to fight these four! They will be facing…

  • Zeus (Greek Mythology)
  • Dio Brando – with The World Over Heaven (Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure)
  • Simon the Digger (in Gurren Lagann)
  • Arceus (Pokemon)

So who’s going to win? We shall have to wait and see!

(Honestly a fight like this is a lot to process. I shall post an “Analysis” page for the abilities of both sides and their effectiveness against their opponents before releasing the actual verdict)

 

Goku vs Lord English Reevaluation Rematch

Lord English VS Goku

So now is the time, in this blog I barely ever remember to update, that I shall be revisiting an old match-up.

Why the reassessment? Well, on one hand, I have now watched both Dragon Ball Z and Revival of F, so I think I now have more ability to comment on Goku’s abilities. On the other, with the release of [S] Collide, we have all finally seen some of Lord English in an actual fight. And now with [S] ACT 7 and the actual end of Homestuck, we have some info about how his immortality and apparent “weaknesses” actually work

WARNING: Spoilers for Homestuck (obviously)

So first and foremost, let’s address a very important point relating to Goku…

A lot of matters of destruction scale in Dragon Ball are very ambiguous and the DB fanbase does jump on a lot of speculation and fanon. Some people actually try to work out and quote Power Levels, like they actually mean something (despite the fact they’ve been a joke from their first appearance)! Every Dragon Ball main villain from Frieza on has either demonstrably destroyed a planet (Frieza) or used a similar-looking move with the intention of destroying a planet (Cell and Buu), and Goku has defeated them (ish), but there’s a difference between destroying a planet and destroying a single super-durable human-sized being just as there’s a difference between knocking down a large building and damaging a steel block. Different methods will affect both differently, and assuming that everyone “more powerful than” someone is capable of the same feats but scaled up by the same degree they are is ridiculous. I’ll save this rant for another time.

So let’s have a quick comparison of the fighters. On a base technique level, they’re actually surprisingly similar. Both these two can utilise energy projectiles (both small quickfire blasts and larger destroy-everything beams). Which is better? The legendary Kamehameha (with the latest in blue Super Saiyan power buffs) is probably comparable to Lord English’s mouth-beams in beam size and dodge-ability, but LE’s beams have an additional effect besides disintegration which should be especially appreciable to both Homestuck and Dragon Ball contexts – they annihilate the targets completely, soul and all – no coming back. Similarly, LE tends to leave massive flashing cracks in the fabric of existence, while (thankfully) Goku’s don’t.

As it turns out, they’re also both fast, strong melee fighters. It goes without saying for Goku, as 90% of most of his fights are most of all fast-paced hand-to-hand fights, but Lord English (as seen in [S] Collide) actually does sometimes take to melee combat, mowing through Meenah’s ghost army with his bare hands and the occasional disintegrating mouth blast. I think Goku has the edge in hand-to-hand though, mostly because at a combat level he is somewhat faster.

Their defences and durability are, however, quite different. Goku is able to survive attacks from the biggest villains in his series, but sometimes little things catch him off guard. I’ve been going with the theory that Goku’s defence (and most likely all Ki-users) is based to some extent on his concentration, which would explain rather nicely how he can climb out of the rubble unharmed after a variety of attacks from villains capable of destroying planets, but is noticeably hurt when Krillin throws a rock at him or when Sorbet shoots him in Revival of F. This could become problematic if an unseen enemy attacks unexpectedly, but Lord English actually fights all his battles in the series by himself as one person (despite some other Time players using time travel to duplicate themselves, most notably Dave). Surprisingly enough, LE is affected by a handful of non-damaging effects like Aradia’s time-stop, and others (most notably Davepetasprite^2) have knocked him around a bit in fights. But of course his greatest ability to this effect is his immortality, and the very last video in Homestuck (not even a flash but a full-scale animation) actually showed us how this came about – by smashing his God-Tier clock with his Juju-breaking crowbar, Caliborn somehow removed the conditions by which he could permanently die. So even if he were to be “killed”, he’d come back immediately, unharmed.

Because of this, Goku could probably give him a visually-impressive but ultimately futile fight, and probably even look like he was winning, though all he’d actually be doing is stalling him.

There is a catch, though. There are two weapons that have been stated by some to be able to actually kill him, and both these weapons are based on a single cue ball. It’s only in the end when we figure out why that ball is significant, where it’s seen to be the weight on the pendulum from Caliborn’s smashed-apart God Tier clock. Such a weapon could probably kill him.

Now is a fairly good time to bring up a little thing called Instant Transmission. Aside from the fact Goku should have taught this to someone, anyone so it was available when they needed it if Goku were unavailable (with he frequently is), if Goku knew about the cue ball for some reason and knew where it was for some reason, he’d probably actually have a fairly good chance if he just teleported away, came back with White Caledfwlch or the White Revolver and use it as a finishing move when the opportunity arose. But that’s two major “what-ifs” already, and he couldn’t just leave the Earth for a few seconds for fear of LE just blowing the planet up permanently while he was gone. Also, I highly doubt Goku would realise any of this on his own.

So under very specific, unlikely circumstances, Goku could pull a win here, but odds are Lord English wins this through his immortality

Iggy vs Akamaru

Akamaru, Kiba's partner from Naruto

Iggy, the Stand User of "The Fool" from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

So in a much-belated comeback, I have a new battle, pitting two of anime’s most badass canines against each other! Kiba’s Ninja Hound and canine companion Akamaru faces Iggy, user of sand-based Stand The Fool

Iggy’s main power comes in the form of his Stand The Fool. It can dissolve into sand and reform remarkably quickly, and even form the sand into other objects (even going as far as creating an incredibly realistic talking replica of Dio). Iggy himself isn’t much of a fighter compared to Akamaru, but he’s certainly stubborn and determined when he wants to be.

Akamaru’s abilities include his ability to take on Kiba’s form and the devastating Fang-over-Fang. With Kiba, they can also fuse into a powerful two-headed hound, but his fighting style is largely based on teamwork with his human partner. On his own, many of his techniques have reduced effectiveness

Of course, both Iggy and Akamaru have amazingly advanced senses of smell on account of being dogs. Akamaru’s senses are perhaps a little more advanced on account of his ninja training, and his reactions are no doubt quicker, but Iggy is pretty good in this department too.

Sadly for Akamaru, Iggy has this match on account of Akamaru not being a Stand User. Even aside from the fact that non-Stand Users can’t see Stands (giving Akamaru a big disadvantage against The Fool), Akamaru would have a hard time against Iggy because he’s not used to fighting on his own. Before meeting Jotaro, Polnareff and the others, Iggy only looked out for himself. While that did change over the course of Stardust Crusaders, he’s still far more used to fighting one-on-one than Akamaru. In addition, The Fool can reform itself from sand very easily and quickly, so Akamaru’s Fang-over-Fang would be hard-pressed to deal it any lasting damage even if he could hit it (Fang-over-Fang is often pretty inaccurate, relying on catching opponents with the two at the same time). It’s a close call, but I believe Iggy is the top dog in this match.

(I’m sorry. I couldn’t resist)